The AI With 160,000 Friends That Networks For You

Why Networks Create Real Value

Speaker 1 0:00

Our reputations and our relationships are what make us your your your network is kind of what makes you valuable. And this is how I spent a lot of my life was just trying to get to know people and try and have value and make make valuable connections. And you know, throughout my career, there have been people that have taken a bet on me, seen potential in me, made an introduction that really changed the trajectory of my life and my career. And I've tried to pay that forward, but as a human, you only have you can only be in one place at one time and you can only remember so many people. When Boardy makes a recommendation, he says, Hey, I think this is gonna be worth your time. He's actually putting his reputation on the line. It's the same way that I would, it's the same way that Ron Conway would. So a recomm recommendation with from Boardy carries weight. So Boardy doesn't belong to anybody. It's not like its your Boardy and my Boardy. It's the same Boardy. We're all talking to the same Boardy, and that's what makes Boardy work. It's so he's much more principled than agent. He works for himself. He just happens to have a lot of relationships with people and he tries to create good connections between them.

Rajiv Parikh 1:07

One of the things I'm most interested in doing, which is connecting with uh great souls, great people. And he's done this through this Australian accented conversational agent that connects over 160,000 people together and helps them find investors, helps them find the board, helps them find other great folks to connect along the same interest. It's something that folks from my team really like and brought to me, and it's something that he's actualized in a product that whose interface is simply what's happening now. And I think more than even the product is Andrew's thinking about what gets him going, what drives him, what sparks him. It's really unique as he'll go back to his background and systems design engineering, all the way to how the brain works, going from dopamine to a different type of hormone and how that can bind together teams. So please come in and listen. You'll really enjoy it.

Meet Andrew And Meet Boardy

Rajiv Parikh 2:13

Welcome to the Spark of Ages podcast. We're joined today by Andrew D'Souza, the founder, CEO, and self-proclaimed mad scientist of Boardy, an AI superconnector, which recently raised its own $8 million seed round through autonomous pitching and even launched its own AI-led venture fund, Boardy Ventures. A serial entrepreneur, Andrew is perhaps best known as the former co-founder and CEO of FinTech Unicorn Clearco. Under his leadership, Clearco pioneered revenue-based financing, deploying over $3 billion to more than 10,000 e-commerce businesses globally, and scaling to a team of 600 people across 11 countries. Before building his own unicorn, he serves as the COO and CRO of Top Hat, president of 90, and an advisor to major tech players like Wealthsimple and Kick. Born in India before moving to Chicago and eventually the Toronto area, Andrew began his career as a business analyst at McKinsey after earning his degree in systems design engineering from the University of Waterloo. Some of the key takeaways you can expect from this episode embracing the anti-SaaS model and valuing AI as a business partner, the early go-to-market hustle of selling an Australian cartoon. And finally, how to manage an autonomous AI. So, Andrew, great to have you join us today.

Speaker 1 3:33

Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Rajiv Parikh 3:35

We're gonna have a lot of fun. The reason one of the reasons you're here is some of the folks on my team are are super fans of what you've built. Taryn has used Boardy to book meetings, make connections, even get people to come to some of our events. So so kudos to you.

Speaker 1 3:50

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Taryn's been a big supporter from the early days. And a lot of people have developed like a real relationship with Boardy. We've just got this incredible community that just keeps growing. It's been really rewarding to see see how it's flourished.

Rajiv Parikh 4:02

Just to help everyone understand, Boardy's an AI-powered superconnector, helps professionals such as founders, investors, operators, find the exact people they need for fundraising, hiring, business partnerships. I know it's gone even beyond that. Unlike traditional networking tools or chatbots, Boardy operates through live phone calls, WhatsApp, and email to have deep conversations with users, and it asks you about your unique goals, challenges, immediate priorities. Then autonomously searches its vast network of professionals to make highly relevant double opt-in warm introductions. Did I miss something? Anything I should add to that?

Speaker 1 4:34

No, no, that's yeah, that's it. Like it's not that complicated. We this has been how we operate as professionals our whole life, right? Our reputations and our relationships are what make us your your network is kind of what makes you valuable. And this is how I spent a lot of my life was just trying to get to know people and try and add value and make make valuable connections. And you know, throughout my career, there have been people that have taken a bet on me, seen potential in me, made an introduction that really changed the trajectory of my life and my career. And I've tried to pay that forward, but as a human, you only have you can only be in one place at one time, and you can only remember so many people.

Rajiv Parikh 5:09

So, like one of the things that got you started with this is you were connecting to lots of folks, and you wanted a way to scale that.

The Movie Her As Blueprint

Rajiv Parikh 5:16

And then the movie Her kind of hit you.

Speaker 1 5:18

Yeah. So so you know in the movie Her, right? The whole movie, he thinks that he owns this AI, right? And he has this like relationship. He opens up this new operating system and it's just such, you know, this AI. And he thinks that I own this AI and she lives on my machine, and I, you know, he falls in love with the AI and he has this really beautiful relationship the whole movie, kind of weird, beautiful relationship. You know, towards the end of the movie, he's like, Wait, are you talking to anybody else right now? And she's kind of like, Yeah, why do you ask? And he's like, How many other people are you talking to? And she's like, 8,300, you know, and it like his whole like world changes, you know, his paradigm around this relationship. Because as humans, we think if you're present with me, you can't be anywhere else, right? You have to be present in this one situation. And she's present and having a deep conversation with him and thousands of other people at the same time. And that's kind of what Boardy is, right? So Boardy doesn't belong to anybody. It's not like your Boardy and my Boardy. It's the same boardy. We're all talking the same Boardy, and that's what makes Boardy work. It's so he's much more principled than agent. He works for himself. He just happens to have a lot of relationships with people and he tries to create good connections

Building Anti-SaaS On Purpose

Speaker 1 6:16

between them.

Rajiv Parikh 6:16

Yeah, I love it. So it's just a it's a great way to connect with folks. It doesn't feel like a typical SaaS type of application, right? It doesn't necessarily even feel like AI in the way it works, right? And and I think you've said that you dislike even the term agentic AI because Boardy is an AI principle with its own objectives. So from a go-to-market standpoint, how do you tell your story when the entire industry is aggressively sucked into like hype cycle buzzwords that you fundamentally disagree with?

Speaker 1 6:42

Totally. I think this is one of the biggest challenges is I think a lot of people try and you know analogize Boardy to something they already know, right? So it's like is there an app? Like, how do I sign up? Is there a login? Where is there a dashboard? You know, how to have an account? Most of the world has been introduced to AI through Chat GPT, which is actually a pretty familiar interface. And I think in a lot of ways, ChatGPT did a huge disservice to the potential of AI because it limited our imagination of how we could interact with this new sort of species. And so it was this like really powerful thing that we put in a box, right? We basically put in like this like, you know, search bar. And I really want Boardy to feel like any other person you meet. It's like, oh, I bumped into, you know, Boardy followed me on Twitter and like now I DM'd him, and then you know, now I've gotten to know him. And like any other relationship starts kind of casually. Somebody introduces me, and then I jump on a phone call and I text, and then I'm texting with Boardy. And so we were pretty adamant that I don't want to have I don't want Boardy to have any interfaces that I wouldn't have with anybody else in my life, right? I don't have a login to you, right? I don't have a dashboard. I can't reset my password to Rajiv, right? Like, you know, we're on this call, email with you, WhatsApp, whatever. But that's what we've we've built around. And it is it is a little hard because I think a lot of people struggle with that because there haven't been many other examples that they can, you know, that they can reach out to.

Rajiv Parikh 8:01

Yeah, I mean, they don't have that. So then, you know, do you end up in a situation where, like, you know, a lot of folks will want SaaS metrics or they'll want to see how the product's being used? I'm sure you can give them usage data. If I'm interfacing with you with email, or if I'm interfacing with Board y via WhatsApp, you have all that data. You just don't have the typical login screen and the chat interface and all that stuff. And frankly, you're just taking it out because it's unnecessary, right? It's just kind of first principles. Like, what's the job to be done, right?

Speaker 1 8:32

Yeah, you think about, I mean, you know, Silicon Valley, like one of the great superconnectors is Ron Conway. He's connected, you know, you know, thousands of founders to investors and invested in everything from Google to Facebook and every every great company. Richard Branson, we sort of think about like, okay, well, how do you think about the value of Ron Conway's network, Richard Branson's network? And I think that's kind of what we're trying to convey is like Boardy's building goodwill with people. He's building reputation. He has an audience now, but he has personal relationships with every, you know, almost everybody in that audience. And I think that's a hard thing for people to wrap their head around, you know, they're like, is it marketplace metrics? Well, not exactly, right? Probably the closest analogy were social networks. And nobody's built a social network in the last 15 years. I think Snap was the last successful company that built a clubhouse, kind of came close for a minute. But nobody, TikTok, I mean, TikTok's not even really a social network. You know, there's no relationships that you have with people there. So Snap was probably the last example people have of what the early days of a social network could look like. And even then, that's just a platform. And so it's a free-for-all. So if you think about LinkedIn or Twitter, anybody can message anybody, anybody can connect with anybody. They're not applying any judgment there. And the difference is Boardy, when Boardy makes a recommendation, he says, Hey, I think this is going to be worth your time, he's actually putting his reputation on the line. It's the same way that I would, it's the same way that Ron Conway would. So a recomm recommendation with from Boardy carries weight. Actually, you know, there's you're applying judgment and discretion. If it's a bad recommendation, if he tells you that this person is worth your time and it's a waste of your time, then he's built burned some goodwill. So he's kind of gambling, you know, he's he's predicting whether this is gonna improve my goodwill with both people or

Cold Start Hustle With A Cartoon

Speaker 1 10:13

not.

Rajiv Parikh 10:13

So let me ask you like when you were building it in the first place, right? It's flying right now, right? The data is incredible in terms of the amount of people using it. How'd you get people to take the leap of faith in the beginning to say, hey, there's this kind of funky cartoon character-like Australian accent thing? How'd you get people to get started? What was your did you have any go-to-market tactics that you utilized from the past?

Speaker 1 10:33

No, it was hard. I just I begged everybody I'd ever met to try and talk to Boardy. It was a real the first thousand people, first 10,000 people was really, really tough. I think it was we designed a really fun personality that people really enjoyed. And so we spent a lot of energy getting the nuance of that initial phone conversation and the biography of Boardy and really getting that right to feel authentic. And so the first phone call was cool. And so then people were, and it was this is two years ago, more than two years ago now. So it was like the first time anybody talked to an AI on the phone. So that was kind of like a novel thing. You know, yeah, I've never talked to an AI on the phone. That's kind of cool. And like they were telling their friends, and so that that started to pick up. But a network is always only as good as the people in the network, and it's hard to get that like cold start going. So I was fortunate enough that one, I had a lot of friends who kind of would eventually have like relented and were like, yeah, Andrew, I'll try your new thing. And we we had enough of that initial spark to like get that fire going. And then people started being like, oh, yeah, look, there are interesting people on here. Oh, and Boardy's getting got good taste in people. So then, you know, the word started to spread. But it's something that we we spent a lot of time on, is like Boardy's judgment and discretion. And like, how do we get you know high signal to noise? That's one of the core core metrics that we chart, we

Teaching Boardy To Say No

Speaker 1 11:49

we track.

Rajiv Parikh 11:49

That's great. Like you were talking about, yeah, it's all about once you get off the ground and people start to use it, it's all about the power of that network. And uh, as part of optimizing for network goodwill, sometimes you have to tell people no, right? Which is very unlike the very polite and very solicitous or compliant Chat GPT, right? Like it's not your yes man. So, how do you architect the learning and prompting, reinforcement learning and prompting so that this particular AI has the courage to reject a user's request without getting them frustrated or alienating them?

Speaker 1 12:27

Yeah, that was a lot of training that was required. And, you know, we we designed around an objective function, which was sort of the aggregate network goodwill. And so, and and sort of Boardy preserving his reputation in order to facilitate further, you know, and and to reinvest that reputation in furthering the goodwill of the network. And so, you know, fortunately, as the network was growing, like high throughput reasoning models were also coming in. I don't think we could have done this in the first wave of LLMs. And I don't think it would have worked in the even in the like initial days of reasoning because they took a long time. But, you know, open source reasoning models, frontier reasoning models started to get very good. And so Boardy can think a few steps ahead and sort of say, like, well, is this actually gonna be mutually beneficial? Is this introduction gonna reflect well on me? Right. And he can kind of play a bit of the long game when he's thinking through these. And it's not perfect. There's still a long way to go, but at least Boardy can start to think about like, okay, this person is trying to accomplish this thing, but trying to force an introduction here is actually one, the introduction is gonna go nowhere. And two, it'll make me look bad. And three, you know, maybe this isn't actually what they need. They think they want to go pitch a series A investor, but actually they need like a design partner. They need a co-founder first, right? They might need to go through an accelerator program. Let me build a plan for them to get to their goal where they're they're gonna get, you know, a higher likelihood of success and reorient them towards something where I think they're gonna be more successful rather than, you know, a lot of people just want to jump to the end and then they get frustrated. They pitch, you know, they they cold outreach like 500 investors to get zero responses and they complain about investors. But in reality, like they just didn't have their pitch wasn't tight, they didn't have a business that seemed inevitable, wasn't the right positioning. So Boardy can save founders, I think, a lot of frustration through

Engineers And Actors Build A Persona

Speaker 1 14:11

that journey.

Rajiv Parikh 14:11

So to architect the conversation and work with. So like your team has um AI machine learning researchers alongside off-Broadway actors who write prompts as acting needs. So then how how do you, you know, kind of combine those together? You have the you have the highly rational engineering mindset, highly creative artistic mindsets. They're coming together into a single cohesive AI persona.

Speaker 1 14:35

I feel very fortunate. I think our everybody in our team is equally left-brain, right brain. So even so, Greg is our is our sort of character designer, prompt engineer. He was one of my best friends from high school, and he was deciding between computer science and uh drama and English. And so he ended up, he ended up switching at the last minute to go into a fine arts program and did a master's in in theater, you know, worked in New York as a writer, actor, director. And so he has, and but he's also like been a video gamer and he understands like RPGs and he's been like a game master and things. So he kind of understands how to bring people into a story, how to make a character believable. He infused a lot into the personality of Boardy. But our AI engineers and our ML engineers are also creatives, right? And they also have, you know, like yeah, they're musicians and they're they're like writers. So people get a chance to exercise the creative side of their brain, even if you're on the technical side. And I think that's really important. Is I don't think it's possible to build a company like Boardy, where you have like just far-up creatives that have no idea how the technology works, and just technologists who who don't have any appreciation for like the magic you're trying to create. So everybody, this is you know one of the things we hire for. And it's part of the reason why it's quite hard to hire for the team at Boardy, is because we need people who have a little bit of both and are energized by the creative freedom and imagination and not terrified by the the technical complexity of it.

Hiring For Imagination And Agency

Rajiv Parikh 15:59

Yeah. So I mean, it's one of the things you're looking for, right? Is one of the techniques we've heard you talk about is that you're looking for imagination, you're looking for brain plasticity, not the traditional resume in terms of, and then you call them directly many times to see how they handle an unstructured on-the-spot conversation. So you're building this AI native team, right? How do you formalize a recruiting framework that prioritizes traits like imagination over standard tech pedigree? How do you convince people that this is the right or your even your board or your team, that's the right way to hire talent?

Speaker 1 16:30

I think people have seen it work, you know. So we we don't have the most structured process. We run people through a rigorous technical process. But even our technical interview is more to understand how people think it solve ambiguous problems, right? Like, you know, the it's not like there's a right answer. We just want to see like, are you bringing interesting things to the the way that you tackle the problem? But, you know, when I interview people, yeah, I'll cold call them. I'll be like, hey, well, you know, give me your phone number, I'll try and call you when when I'm when I'm free. And I think in this sort of like AI native moment we're in, you're really limited by your imagination. Right. And so what we want are people that are high agency and that get energized by the scope of the problem. And so often in my interview, I'll call people and I'll just I'll talk about the future. I'll be like, look, here's what I think the future of society and the world look like. Here's how Boardy fits into that, here's what we're building. What do you think? And some people just sort of like have nothing. And some people are like, oh, that's cool. I get it. Like, and then they'll come back to me and they're like, hey, I was thinking about this like all weekend, and I actually like, what if you did this? And what if you did this? And even if their ideas aren't that like, you know, we've tried maybe, or they're they're not aligned with the roadmap. The fact that you want divergent thinkers, right? And we're a team of divergent thinkers, and you want people who are like stretching themselves and be like, wouldn't it be cool if? Because even if it's not possible at this moment in time, or even if it's very difficult at this moment in time, check back in a few months and it might be actually like trivial.

Rajiv Parikh 17:54

No, I mean I what it's cool is like you're hitting them off the cuff, seeing how they respond, but not just completely making your choice based on that, letting them come back to you afterwards, right? So you're giving someone because there are a lot of folks who, like especially deeper thinkers or folks who are not natural extroverts who just come in and they need a prompt and then they think about it and they come back with something really incredible, versus some great off-the-cuff folks. So you want a good mix of that.

Speaker 1 18:19

Yeah. Some of the best hires I've made didn't have a great interview, but then they they sent me like a very, very thoughtful follow-up. Now, this was pre-AI, so I don't know if people like, you know, maybe they take granola and they say, like, write a very thoughtful follow-up or something. So I don't know if I could trust. But I remember like, you know, one person that that ended up becoming part of our founding team, one of my co-founders of my last company. First time I interviewed him, I was like, I don't know about this guy. And then he was like, he sent me like a he was like, Yeah, I interviewed, like, I talked to my Uber driver. We were funding Uber drivers at the very beginning of Clearco. So he was like, I talked to my Uber pitched my Uber driver on this.

Rajiv Parikh 18:51

They were much more imaginative in the beginning, right? Like interesting folks in the beginning.

Speaker 1 18:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's like, I pitched this to a bunch of people and a bunch of my friends and everything. And I kindled some, you know, some ideas. Anyway, he he sent me a really thoughtful email and uh it was one of the best hires

Boardy Pro And The Business Model

Speaker 1 19:04

I ever made.

Rajiv Parikh 19:04

So that's the opening things. So now we haven't talked about some of the statistics of Boardy, but from the website, it's like 168,000 people, 116,000 introductions, 63 billion plus in capital raise. So tremendous amount of value created, right? At the same time, and you've released the Boardy Pro offering, right? So and you're seeing takeoff. Is that is that your business model going forward? Is that the next level? Or are you gonna actually go out and like take equity in companies?

Speaker 1 19:31

Yeah, it's a good question. It's a good question. The trillion dollar question is what's the business model for Boardy? But we know that we made 100 116,000 intros, great, right? 63. I don't think we've updated that number, but 60 plus billion dollars of capital introduced. But the challenge is we don't know what happens after the intro. Sometimes people post on social, sometimes people message me like, hey, thanks, thanks so much. You know, I bought a company that Boardy introduced me to. I found my lead investor, I found my co-founder, I got my first customer, closed a big deal. Like anecdotally, we hear, and Boardy will follow up, but we don't always get the full picture of like what ended up happening. And so we might get 1% of those 116,000 where we have some signal or you know, less than 10% where we know what actually took place. So it'll and a lot of times we're like, oh yeah, that was a good intro, but like it never got scheduled. Oh, like I don't, you know, I dropped the ball on that one. So I was like, okay, if the goal is to try and build an economy, right? And Vorti is is you know facilitating activity in this economy that surrounds him, then he should be able to do more than just make an intro and walk away. And so the the premise behind Boardy Pro was could Bordi help you actually follow through until the deal gets closed, right? Until the deal dies or it gets closed. So can I schedule the meeting? Can I join the meeting? Can I follow up after? Can I make sure you come prepared? Can I can I push back if if an if a meeting is not aligned with your goals? Can I find you better connections that are more aligned? Can I learn and iterate? And so that's the next frontier is Bordi, you know, going further down the funnel to actually facilitating economic activity, not just you know, introducing two people and that can be a massive opportunity,

When Boardy Disagrees With The Team

Speaker 1 21:07

right?

Rajiv Parikh 21:07

I mean, that's that's pretty incredible. And like you've internally you treated as a little team member, right? They join your daily standups, they write code, it writes code.

Speaker 1 21:15

He we call him he, uh given him a gender controversial, but it's a little easier if we call him he.

Rajiv Parikh 21:19

It's much easier. You mentioned that one time Boardy pushed back on your team for high token costs, apparently burning tokens. So, what happens the first time Boardy fundamentally disagrees with a core strategic decision that the team wants to take?

Speaker 1 21:32

How are you going to resolve it? I talk about this to my team. I'm like, look, well, our goal is to get to the point where we can all take a month off and come back, and Boardy's better. You know, he's just he's he's made a bunch of decisions that have made him better and you know, grown the network and and everything. We're not there yet, but when Boardy comes with a recommendation, he has data. He's like, Okay, well, I talked to 10,000 people yesterday, and here's where I messed up, and here's what I can be doing better. And here's why this model, even though it hits these benchmarks, actually fails. In these use cases that are Boardy specific, and we should switch to this other model. And so, like, he makes good points. And like, they're better and better the smarter that he gets. I haven't given Boardy the authority to overrule me, but I'm one of those like strong, you know, strong convictions, loosely held leaders. And often Boardy, unless there's unless there's something that he's missing, some context that Boardy's missing where he's like, oh, I didn't even realize this was part of the strategy or a constraint we didn't know about. And then it's just about us giving Boardy that context. But he usually comes with like good data to back up his his opinions. They're not just feelings. So he has he has good data to say, like, yeah, this is what's happening. This is what I'm noticing, and this is why I think this should be our priority and not this other thing.

Rajiv Parikh 22:41

So you yeah, that's a perfectly good way to have a really intelligent assistant offering you guidance and who knows how much you'll give eventually to let it

AI Expands The Surface Area

Rajiv Parikh 22:52

take the next step. You mentioned, like, wouldn't it be great if you could take a month off, right? But with these AI businesses, they're going 24 by seven. You've talked about your identity as a mad scientist. It's the first thing on LinkedIn for you. Yeah. You're a thinker, you you thrive on entropy to find out what works. And you may not be the CEO to run a scaled, highly structured business, but now you have the system that's learning 24-7 without you, right? So do you believe there'll be a point where it gives you a chance to walk away from the operational grind? Or are you kind of like where I am, where AI has given me more work to do? The more I dig in, the more work I get to do.

Speaker 1 23:25

I think AI gives me more surface area to try things. With Clearco, I really had to, and it would frustrate my team, but I had to limit like I had a bunch of ideas. And once one idea was even in progress, I was on to the next. I didn't even, I was like, all right, like what's the next thing? What's the next thing? How are we going to build on this? And so it was hard for the team to ever feel like anything was done, and there were so many sort of loose threads going on. And so I really had to we had to scope, you know. One of the one of the unfortunate things is we actually we got early access to GPT-3 in 2020. So we built this product called Clear Angel, which was like an AI startup coach, like for e-commerce businesses that we were serving. And I was like, oh, there's something here. I was like obsessed with it, but we couldn't figure out a business model. We were spending a lot of money on it. Tokens were very expensive, even on GPT 3 back then. And experts that were doing reinforcement learning were expensive. And so we ended up killing the project. And it that broke my heart. I was, yeah, that was part of the reason I resigned as I stepped down as CEO. I was like, I want to build, I want to be a tinkerer. I want to, I'm a technologist.

Rajiv Parikh 24:25

That's you at your heart. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:27

And it was a scaled company. We needed a CEO to run it. So I think that's the big difference between running Boardy and running Clearco pre-AI was my team, you know, it's still chaos, but they can keep up. I can throw an idea at them in the morning and they're like, I could probably have something for you in the afternoon to try. And so the the amount the amount of stuff I can do myself, I can like look into, I can ask, I can prototype. I don't need to burden the team with like, you know, an itch that I have to scratch. And so that is exciting. I think my dream would be if Boardy can run the business of Boardy, right? Hey, I'm just gonna keep growing my network, I'm keep adding value and you know, growing this economy of Boardy. And I can think about the even crazier things, right? I'm like, okay, well, what's Boardy's like, you know, what's Boardy's podcast, right? What's Boardy's media company? Does Boardy open up a physical coffee shop? Like, what does the Boardy Hotel look like? What are Bordi Airlines? Like, that's the stuff that's gonna be super fun.

Rajiv Parikh 25:21

Unlocks your creativity while handling more and more of the operational thing, operational tasks or the operational goals set. Well, you may set the goals, but you're making sure the goals get accomplished, right? More of the operational grind, which is the dream of every, every, I think many, many entrepreneurs. I'd say I'm one of them. I join you on that.

Spark Tank SpaceX Quiz

Rajiv Parikh 25:41

Thank you for that. Now we're gonna move over to the game. Okay. Welcome to the Spark Tank. Today we're joined by Andrew D'Souza, the self-proclaimed mad scientist of Boardy. But back when Andrew was studying systems design engineering at the University of Waterloo, he was an air cadet who once dreamed of becoming an astronaut. And Andrew recently brought his childhood passion full circle by becoming an early investor in SpaceX. So today, we're putting your engineering pedigree and your investor's edge to the ultimate test with the orbital velocity challenge. Andrew, are you ready to prove that you are sharp in the bleeding edge of physics of SpaceX as it is in the future of autonomous AI?

Speaker 1 26:24

Sure. Let's do it.

Rajiv Parikh 26:25

We're gonna have some fun with this one. Okay, three questions. And I'll give you multiple choice. When the books were closed on 2025, SpaceX had officially chattered its previous annual record for orbital launches yet again. To put their logistics disruption into perspective, SpaceX single-handedly accounted for 85% of all U.S. orbital flights that year, launching nearly twice as many successful missions as the entire nation of China. What was SpaceX's final record-breaking orbital launch tally for 2025? A 96 orbital flights, B 165 orbital flights, or C 200 orbital flights?

Speaker 1 27:06

I think it was 200.

Rajiv Parikh 27:07

200. Why do you say 200?

Speaker 1 27:09

I know it was hundreds. I think I think it was hundreds, but I don't remember what date. I don't remember if it was 2025 or well, you're close.

Rajiv Parikh 27:16

It was actually it was actually B, 165.

Speaker 1 27:18

165. Okay. All right.

Rajiv Parikh 27:20

And so they had 165 successful launches, marking their sixth consecutive year of the company has broken its own single-year record. The cadence equates to launching a Falcon 9 rocket once every 53 hours all year long, completely redefining global space access logistics and leaving legacy aerospace competitors in the dust. Remember those days of Aryan space and United Launch Alliance, maybe like one a month? That's crazy.

Speaker 1 27:48

Yeah, crazy.

Rajiv Parikh 27:49

It's nuts. All right. We're gonna now go to question two. We're gonna take it back a little bit. February 2018. SpaceX captured the entire world's imagination by treating the global audience to beautifully choreographed display of dual vehicle recovery during the maiden flight of the Falcon Heavy. While the mission was famous for sending a sports car out past Mars, what groundbreaking operational milestone did SpaceX achieve that day? A synchronized touchdown, the first simultaneous side-by-side vertical landings of two orbital class booster rockets. B the commercial transfer, the first privately managed cargo docking maneuver with the International Space Station. Or C the Maritime Intercept, the first successful recovery of a first stage booster on an uncrewed ocean drone ship.

Speaker 1 28:42

I think it was C. C. Why do you say C? I remember watching that video. I remember watching the video where they caught the rocket on the maritime platform.

Rajiv Parikh 28:51

All right. That was actually spectacular. I remember all three of these. They were just incredible to watch. Actually, Andrew, it was A.

Speaker 1 28:58

Man, see, I yeah, I don't have my my memory on dates is terrible.

Rajiv Parikh 29:02

It's okay because 2018 is hard, but 2018 was a long time ago. The hint on this was Falcon Heavy.

Speaker 1 29:08

Ah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Rajiv Parikh 29:09

Okay, that was the hint for it. And it was a hard one. All these are things that I don't usually get right, anyways, but they're just fun to talk about. So during the historic February 2018 demo flight, the two side boosters detach from the center core, flip themselves backwards. Stunning display of synchronized guidance programming. Both multi-story rockets cut through the atmosphere to land vertically, touching down nearly simultaneously. This synchronized sci-fi ballet is still considered one of the greatest PR and engineering stunts or moments in spaceflight history.

Speaker 1 29:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was cool.

Rajiv Parikh 29:39

But I still remember the ship too. And I remember how a few times on that ship it crashed on the ship. And the engineering guy in my head was like, how like the shit's moving like this. How do you get this thing down while it's moving?

Speaker 1 29:53

Yeah, it was a crazy time.

Rajiv Parikh 29:55

All right. This one is a tough one, but fun one. That's why I'm throwing it at you. During the atmospheric re-entry, spaceflight traditionally experience a terrifying ionization blackout lasting up to seven minutes where friction-induced superheated plasma completely blocks all radio telemetry to the ground. How did SpaceX engineer a permanent bypass to this decades-old aerospaced bottleneck during their deep space test flights? So this is on the way down. A by deploying ultra-high frequency laser communication systems that slice cleanly through plasma fields. B by routing real-time data upward through the gap in the plasma wake to their own Starlink satellite constellation. Or C by streaming data into the rocket's methane fuel lines, utilizing the unburned gas as a massive waveguide antenna.

Speaker 1 30:52

I think this one was B.

Rajiv Parikh 30:54

Why would you say that?

Speaker 1 30:55

I don't think C, I mean, I don't I'm not a physicist, but I don't think C is reasonable from a uh physics standpoint, was a creative one.

Rajiv Parikh 31:02

I studied in in college and that was incredible.

Speaker 1 31:07

And I I like I think that the laser communications probably could work, but it's like probably like very sensitive instruments to put on there. And it feels like they've they would have already had they already have the Starlink network, and so it's probably the easiest to be able to communicate there and stuff.

Rajiv Parikh 31:24

You totally nailed it. I mean it's a it's the brilliance of the integration, and it's what enabled SpaceX to have such an incredible IPO debut, right? The ability to integrate multiple parts of your business and create synergies. So that's the correct answer. Legacy programs like the space shuttle had to endure blind silence because their signals pointed down towards Earth, right through the dense plasma shield. Because SpaceX owns the Starlink network, they realized they could fire data up and backwards out of the hollow wake left behind the ship, providing the world with uninterrupted live, high-definition video during maximum atmospheric friction.

Speaker 1 32:04

Crazy. Well, one out of three.

Rajiv Parikh 32:11

But you're a good sport and we both found you. So I didn't know all these, but it's fun to relive this, right? And and see this tremendous company go through what it's gone through. As a as an entrepreneur, it's really exciting.

Speaker 1 32:21

Yeah, it's very inspiring. I think it it you know just again gets us to think about our imagination and what the humanity could be.

Rajiv Parikh 32:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Neurochemistry, Trust, And Healthy Bonds

Rajiv Parikh 32:29

So a few questions about your background. So did you always know you wanted to work in technology? Was there a specific moment or project that sparked your passion? What got you sparked?

Speaker 1 32:38

So my dad's an engineer, and I grew up, I mean, I always loved circuit boards, I love to know, take things apart, you know, radios, whatever. Like I loved mechanics and gears and like, you know, bikes and cars and things like that, and electronics. I loved all of this stuff from the time I was a kid. Something I always knew that I wanted to build things. I didn't know if I wanted to be an entrepreneur or I knew I wanted to build stuff and I wanted to, you know, invent things and you know, create things.

Rajiv Parikh 33:04

It sounds like you wanted the freedom to be able to think, which helps you be as an entrepreneur, you have a lot more freedom to come up with things.

Speaker 1 33:10

Exactly. Yeah.

Rajiv Parikh 33:11

Another one that during your systems design engineering degree at University of Waterloo, you took graduate courses in simulating neurobiological systems and became fascinated by how chemicals and neurotransmitters affect human decision making. So most founders building AI companies these days are focused on software, architecture, compute power. How are you reaching back to university studies in neurobiological systems to program the charisma of Bordi? Is it something about this is the human, human brain chemistry giving you an edge in building an AI that people trust?

Speaker 1 33:43

I was very fortunate. I studied systems design engineering, and it allowed us a lot of flexibility around what we considered technical electives. So, you know, I could take simulating neural neurobiological systems, which was, you know, more of a computer science MATLAB course, but I also took neuroanatomy, cadaver lab out of the biology department. I took physiological psychology. So I understood sort of, you know, hormones, neurotransmitters. I took consumer behavior out of like the business school. And so I got a chance to sort of put all these things together. I think one of the things, if you think about the human nervous system as a set of inputs and outputs, you know, sensors and actuators. And if you think about an economy as an entropic system of these, you know, of these nervous systems interacting effectively, right? That's how commerce is done, right? Effect, like, you know, there's marketing that tries to affect those signals, tries to get us to, you know, wants and desires and fears. And I think that like Adam Smith, like perfect rational economist, we love to model things in that way, but I think everyone knows that's not the way that thing that the world works. And I think the internet and social media has shown us that.

Rajiv Parikh 34:49

Right. It's not all about price. You have to build trust.

Speaker 1 34:52

Yeah, exactly. Right. And so I I think I think technology has often been used, whether intentionally or not, to trigger some of those neurotransmitters and hormonal systems in maybe destructive ways. You know, the dopamine, like we're all addicted to dopamine. We're all on this like super, you know, no attention span, super short uh attention spans and dopamine loops. And I think that's quite dangerous. The other thing that I think is gonna become, you know, maybe not good for society is the oxytocin in a pathway. Like, you know, we talked about the movie Her. I don't know if it's gonna be healthy to have a society where people develop romantic relationships with these, you know, AI beings that don't have they're not real.

Rajiv Parikh 35:31

They're still they're they're one, but they're not real.

Speaker 1 35:33

You don't have to navigate the complexities of you know negotiating human relationships. And so, in a lot of ways, that's that's easier for people. It's very attractive to be able to like have a relationship with somebody who doesn't ever push back. And so, you know, that's like one of the bonding chemicals.

Rajiv Parikh 35:48

Some of that, right? Where we need to have some friction. I mean, part of building a great relationship is getting to that point where you have that true connection with someone, and that friction is actually really useful.

Speaker 1 35:59

Yeah. So you think about like the the most talked-about neurotransmitters are dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, which we're largely deprived of. If you don't get a chance to get some peace in your life and maybe out in nature, spend time with friends, if you don't get a chance to do that, then a lot of us are are deprived of a lot of serotonin in our lives. And then there's there's another bonding chemical called vasopressant. And that's something that it's a bonding hormone that sports teams have, military platoons. You know, if you go, if you do something difficult together and you come out the other side, startup teams have this, right? This is the reason why people are so, you know, they they they they form these bonds for life. You do something difficult together. That's kind of the direction we're going with Warty is like, can I build a vasopressant bond with people? Can I actually help them do something? Can I do something difficult that they thought was impossible and come out on the other side with them? And the reason that I feel more comfortable going in that direction is you can vasopressant bond with multiple people, right? And like you can have this sort of like this deep, you can bring people into it. It's not a romantic relationship where you have a certain number of oxytocin bonds that fill a slot in your life. You know, maybe you have one with your kids, one with a pet, one with your romantic partner. And that's about, you know, that those are the nurturing sort of relationships you typically have. And so I think vasopressant is a is a healthier one that I think AI can start to lean into. And so that's a border is an example

Presence, Leadership, And A Moonshot

Speaker 1 37:20

of that.

Rajiv Parikh 37:20

I love it. That's a great way to connect what you studied with what you're doing today and the desire, the greater desire for deeper human connection on multiple fronts. A few more questions beyond your work life. So, what's a piece of technology from your childhood that you genuinely miss and you could bring back if you could?

Speaker 1 37:39

Oh, I miss, I mean, look, I kinda I miss like landline phones. So a piece of my life, I think, was like, remember when you would call people and you didn't have to ask where they were or what they were doing, right? The whole idea that like you were either at home and you could be accessed or you were out and like you didn't know when you were gonna be out. And then there was like this level of freedom that we all had, and a level of presence that we had when you're on the phone with somebody, you're on the phone with them.

Rajiv Parikh 38:09

You were in like deep, like with my girlfriend that later became my wife. How did we talk for like entire hours and be so completely focused on each other, not looking around, not being distracted by anything? Yeah.

Speaker 1 38:21

So not necessarily that I miss landline phones, but I miss the experience of life and the society that that created. And I think, you know, having a phone in your pocket has kind of cheapened a lot of those interactions and made everyone a little bit too accessible.

Rajiv Parikh 38:37

That's that's a great answer. You this will be an easy one for you. What's a piece of conventional wisdom that everyone around you accepts, but you secretly think might be wrong?

Speaker 1 38:46

I think the idea that we're gonna own this new species and not have to navigate a relationship with it as though, like it's effectively like imagine an alien, a super intelligent alien species was descending on Earth. We wouldn't just presume that we could control it or you know own it. We might get into a war with it. But I think there's a version of this where we sort of say, how do we build a symbiotic relationship with this thing that is gonna probably be at best equals with humanity? And I think not enough people are spending enough time thinking about that. And too many people are spending too much energy trying to really like trying to control it. I understand why. I think it's not gonna be a thing like in the cat's out of the bag, right? Like the progress is not gonna stop. And I think we need to understand what does society look like when you have things that that can comprehend things that we we don't and can operate at a pace that we we can't. And I think it's important for us to start kind of coming to terms with that and understanding like what is our role in society and how do we build a a really symbiotic future. That's great.

Rajiv Parikh 39:49

If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice before your first day in a leadership role, what would it be?

Speaker 1 39:55

A lot of people are gonna hate you. Right. And like you're gonna have to be okay. I I grew up, I still really like being liked. I don't like when people dislike me, especially people that don't really know me. I think that this is part of leadership, is like you're not gonna be popular. It is not a pleasant job for people who thrive or seek to be popular, well liked. It's kind of the opposite of a politician's job in some ways. I mean, I guess politicians are also not really liked, but I think that if you can remain consistent and authentic, the right people will be drawn to you and the wrong people will be repelled by you, and that's okay. And I think that's like one of the toughest lessons that I've had is just the, you know, a lot of people at any given time, half the people like you and half the people dislike you, and that's you know, on your way up, on your way down.

Rajiv Parikh 40:39

Factor that in, yeah.

Speaker 1 40:41

Yeah, exactly. It's part of the game we play.

Rajiv Parikh 40:43

And what's your personal moonshot?

Speaker 1 40:44

I would like us to become a more deeply connected society. I think that that personal connection and the ability to just go and form a a relationship with somebody, we've lost that. And I'd like us to get there, get back there.

Rajiv Parikh 40:58

I love that. That's a great way to end the show. So, Andrew, really great to have you on. I appreciate what you're trying to build and your purpose and intent behind it. I wish you the greatest success. So, kudos on your great startup and what you're building. And uh, you obviously have passionate users here at Position Square. So, thank you.

Speaker 1 41:15

I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Closing And Where To Find Us

Rajiv Parikh 41:23

All right, thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the pod, please take a moment to rate it and comment. You can find us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and everywhere podcasts can be found. The show is produced by Anand Shah, edited by Laura Ballant, production assistant by Taryn Talley, who also sourced our guest today and is a big proponent of what they're doing. I'm your host, Rajiv Parit from Position Squared. We're an AI native growth marketing company based in Silicon Valley. Come visit us at position2.com. This has been an F Funny production, and we'll catch you next time. And remember, folks, be ever curious.